Lower GTX1660 PPD on 13404-5 WUs

[cine.chris]

On two systems today, I'm seeing significantly lower PPD for 13404-5 WUs, like from 700K+ yesterday to 5-600Ks range today.
Both systems are running 2x 1660Ti, 1x 1660 Super GPUs .
Win10, client 7.6.8,7.6.10

Normal? Or something wrong?

[JohnChodera]

We've released a new wave of RUNs for this project, but all the systems are the same size so should run similarly. It could be that the workload character has shifted---and hence the performance. We're investigating now.

As always, thanks for the heads up!

~ John Chodera // MSKCC

[kiore]

Hi cine.chris these seem to be beta units you are testing, if you are having issues with them try removing the beta flag if you have it set.

[Neil-B]

Hi cine.chris these seem to be beta units you are testing, if you are having issues with them try removing the beta flag if you have it set.

Currently showing on https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary so appears may have moved out of beta?

[cine.chris]

Thx guys, I just got a 16443 WU & the 1660 super jumped to 726K estPPD.
I was afraid you guys were going to let one of those ThreadRipper MicroCenter guys catch me!
BTW the RTX 2060 super is cranking on a 13405 WU at 1731K PPD.
The RTXs must like 'm?
LOL

[PantherX]

Welcome to the F@H Forum cine.chris,

Please note that the Project you're getting is still in Beta (viewtopic.php?f=66&t=35045&start=15). As per the Forum rules, Non-Beta Testers will not be supported (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8). Projects in Beta can have kinks that needs to be worked out between the researcher(s) and Beta Testers.

The best option for a smooth folding experience is to remove the beta flag as suggested by kiore and you will only get WUs from Projects that are fully published.

[PantherX]

...Currently showing on https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary so appears may have moved out of beta?

That's a list of all available Projects.

Historically, there were different pages of Project Summary but that was later consolidated into a single link IIRC.

[cine.chris]

As always, thanks for the heads up!
~ John Chodera // MSKCC

John-
I swapped one of the 1660Ti with an EVGA 2060 KO Ultra, it picked-up one of the 13404 WU with an 1,117K estPPD.
I was disappointed with that # when compared to the 2060 Super.
Anyway, it's another data point. HTH

Chris

[VegaZhree3]

Welcome to the F@H Forum cine.chris,

Please note that the Project you're getting is still in Beta (viewtopic.php?f=66&t=35045&start=15). As per the Forum rules, Non-Beta Testers will not be supported (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8). Projects in Beta can have kinks that needs to be worked out between the researcher(s) and Beta Testers.

The best option for a smooth folding experience is to remove the beta flag as suggested by kiore and you will only get WUs from Projects that are fully published.

I'm using "advanced" flag but still gettings beta WUs, including this one.

Using 1660 Super and also getting lowest PPD because even there is no power limit or something similiar, the WU utilizes only %70-72 of TDP (~90W) like i mentioned before.

[Neil-B]

Historically, there were different pages of Project Summary but that was later consolidated into a single link IIRC.

Evidence would appear to be to the contrary:

https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary?visibility=BETA has rows/projects that https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary doesn't and these rows/Projects do appear on quick inspection to align to Projects that do appear from the forums to be in Beta ... and https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary?visibility=ALL at a quick glance has all of them … this would imply the three pages (the basic page and the two with view statements) are what the purport to be.

What really surprises me - and I have raised this elsewhere but had no clarification is the number of Projects that seem to have moved to Advanced/FAH but not had the Beta "flag" removed (which is my understanding of what is happening) and therefore show in both the first two links.

I believe the ASs have cascade logic that will assign Advanced/FAH WUs to beta flagged clients if there are no Beta/Advanced WUs available so there should be no need to "leave" a Project marked for the previous stage (Beta/Advanced) when it moves on to the next … The only reason I can think of might be that the researchers want the Beta Team to keeping checking more of a certain Project even though it has been moved on - but that ought to be the exception rather than the rule?? … This has on a number of occasions that I have spotted caused members of the Beta Team and/or Mods to "call out" folders for using Beta flag when they are not (most iirc have been Advanced, but I think one might have been using basic FAH) - non Beta Team shouldn't be using the Beta flag but at the same time it should be clearer which Projects are in Beta or else this type of issue will persist

The comment from the OP that they have received the WUs on Advanced flag supports that the WUs have moved on from Beta even if no formal announcement has been made and so I (at this point until proved otherwise) stand by my original statement that the web pages show the Project has moved on from Beta

[bruce]

Historically, there were different pages of Project Summary but that was later consolidated into a single link IIRC.

Evidence would appear to be to the contrary:

https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary?visibility=BETA has rows/projects that https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary doesn't and these rows/Projects do appear on quick inspection to align to Projects that do appear from the forums to be in Beta ... and https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary?visibility=ALL at a quick glance has all of them … this would imply the three pages (the basic page and the two with view statements) are what the purport to be.

Historically, there were TWO different pages and they were, in fact, combined which matches Neil-B's URLs. A public page and a Beta page. The projects on those two pages should be mutually exclusive -- and the counts on serverstat should match those lists ... somehow allowing for a time-lag for sampling changes. If it's not already there, open a ticket on github.

[Neil-B]

There is significant overlap between the Beta page and the public page - absolutely not mutually exclusive at the moment ... I'll root around github and see if I can identify any ticket that may have already been raised - If not I'll try to get a ticket raised.

As at yesterday when I grabbed the data the following applied:

https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary?visibility=BETA ("Beta", the Beta "Only" page) had 193 Projects Listed

https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary ("Public", the Public and not Beta page) had 306 Projects Listed

https://apps.foldingathome.org/psummary?visibility=ALL ("Total", the total list of Projects page) had 338 Projects Listed

Top Level Analysis shows:

All projects appear in Total … That's a good start anyway

19 Projects Appear in Total that do not appear in either Beta or Public … Possibly Projects pre Beta?

13 Projects Appear in Total and Beta but not in Public … Projects currently in Beta?

126 Projects Appear in Total and Public but not in Beta … Projects that have moved out of Beta into Public?

180 Projects Appear in All Three lists … These are the Projects that appear to not have had their Beta Flags "pulled"?

Observations:

- Either the pages are not up to date (not sure if they are manually updated or automatically created from the actual flags set somewhere in the system) or the flag set in the system appear to be set in a manner that does not fit traditional wisdom as to how the flag system works.

- If the 180 projects that appear in all three lists should have actually moved into Public but still have their Beta Flags set as well this might explain some of the assignment "anomalies" that are occasionally seen by Beta Team as these may get equal assignment status as the 13 projects that appear to be true Beta projects.

- There may be some much simpler explanation for all that I am seeing which I am not aware of so I may just be jumping at shadows

[Neil-B]

OK so I have trawled GitHub and can't find a current issue that relates to the summary pages not functioning as expected … before I raise a ticket is it possible for someone to check that the current process/procedures for marking flags and moving Projects on from Internal > Beta > Advanced > FAH is being followed the way it is intended to be … What I am really wondering is whether flags are actually being set for the next stage without the flag for the current stage being removed (if that makes sense - or is indeed how it works).

I ask this as for me, if the pages not functioning as expected/intended then it feels like a GitHub style issue … but if it is a procedural flag setting glitch/oversight at the Project (human) level then I am not sure if that raising a GitHub Issue is the best way forward?

[cine.chris]

Thx for following up on this post.
I've never changed or set any flags, all my systems are currently Win10pro, think all clients are up to v7.6.13 now.
Currently, 4 clients @5.2M PPD (just noticed that sigma box at the bottom)
I use to see my ryzen5/2060 box at 1.5-2M PPD, so I moved two 2060's to an x299 Intel box... I've seen 3M, one time with that setup on these later WUs.
My impression was that recent WUs weren't responding consistently and yielding poor results.
Honestly, I just got the feeling my efforts were being wasted by some grad student that couldn't configure their WUs correctly.
As a retired aerospace engineer, I don't like the feeling that my skills, time, $$$, kWHr are being wasted, when all I expected to see was an accurate & consistent metric. if the metric is broken, I begin to question the process.
Thx Neil-B for digging into the workflow.

[bruce]

Maybe you should direct your criticisms directly to the person responsible for projects 134xx. (He's most definitely not a mere Grad Student.) These projects are a new type of research and it has been a bit of a struggle to make them stable on all platforms.