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Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:30 pm
by 7im
Nathan_P wrote:I can fully understand the Linux count going down, Its where BA units reside and a lot of heavy hitters have already shut down
Funny thing is the Linux TFLOPS have not gone down, nor has the active client count. The first set of numbers is from November 1, 2013. The second set of numbers was taken last week. Same TFLOPS, active clients have gone up, active cores have gone down. Decide for yourself.
Code: Select all
Native x86 CPUs Cores Total CPUs
14 14 4512 20226 45204
14 14 4586 17426 48451
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:32 pm
by EXT64
Yeah, something is wrong with Active Cores vs Active CPUs for the GPUs. I have 2 AMD GPUs in one box, so I know the two should not be equal. That, or for fermi the cores should equal cpus.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:33 am
by bruce
There has been some mis-reporting of ATI vs. NV GPUs. That, too, has apparently been corrected.
As far as over-counting clients, remember that if you uninstall and reinstall, that same machine is counted twice for up to 50 days. The servers are not notified that client XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX has been uninstalled, only that client YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY has just returned a result.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:14 am
by netblazer
bruce wrote:There has been some mis-reporting of ATI vs. NV GPUs. That, too, has apparently been corrected.
As far as over-counting clients, remember that if you uninstall and reinstall, that same machine is counted twice for up to 50 days. The servers are not notified that client XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX has been uninstalled, only that client YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY has just returned a result.
Fine, but how many people actually uninstalled 7.3.6 and tried both betas and kept posting wus during all that time??? That can't possibly be more than 5000?? people out of 50K?? active members. On the lot? a rather statistically insignificant amount (no offense intended).
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:13 am
by 7im
No one is trying to explain the change with a single explanation, just that any small change in numbers, up or down, has multiple causes. Not all of them because of a perceived sky falling. More often than not it's just a pine cone.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:56 am
by P5-133XL
Today, I noticed that Linux TFLOPS had dropped from 11 to 9. That is the first indication of bigadv abandoning folding that I've seen.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:04 am
by Joe_H
Maybe, or some of the ATI stats were being misapplied to the Linux category. I did notice that a similar drop started on the OS X TFLOPS figure shortly after the PG announcement of the stats fix. It had risen to 19 or 20 and dropped to 13 as the ATI number rose.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:07 am
by Rattledagger
7im wrote:Funny thing is the Linux TFLOPS have not gone down, nor has the active client count. The first set of numbers is from November 1, 2013. The second set of numbers was taken last week. Same TFLOPS, active clients have gone up, active cores have gone down. Decide for yourself.
Code: Select all
Native x86 CPUs Cores Total CPUs
14 14 4512 20226 45204
14 14 4586 17426 48451
AFAIK multiple teams has some kind of FAH-Christmas-race, having an extra spike in "normal" 2-core to 12-core computers at the same time some other users shuts-down their BA-computers are a possibility that can explain the small increase in active cpu's but a large decrease in #cores. Since where's a 50-day delay from shutting-down until this has any effect on the stats-page, the numbers for 10.02.2014 was around 22.12.2013 so likely during any kind of Christmas-race. Todays numbers on the other hand means around 31.12.2013 and depending on race-end this can be afterwards. For the last two stats-updates, the numbers was:
Code: Select all
Linux 9 9 2878 10030 46946
Linux 9 9 2875 10019 46943
Well, to me a halving of active cores since 01.11.2013 and a 36% drop in active cpu's is a marked decrease for Linux.
The possible reasons for this drop are:
1: There's a problem with the Google-worksheet so the old numbers are incorrect.
2: The stats for 10.02.2014 was incorrect meaning can't really compare to old numbers.
3: The bug-fix for Amd-GPU's broke the stats for Linux (and from the look of things Windows & Mac).
4: Users are turning-off their FAH cpu-clients.
Seeing how the "Total CPUs" for Linux decreased with 3 between the two latest stats-updates, the stats are atleast partially broken but this doesn't neccessarily means the other numbers also are broken.
For the other stats, Amd has a marked increase after the bug-fix. The two Nvidia-types also has a marked increase, maybe these also has been under-counted, or it's possible all GPU-numbers are basically "pre-fix" + "clients returned anything after the fix", so can continue to increase until hit the 50-day-limit and would afterwards get a large drop for the Nvidia-types (No idea if GPU also uses a 50-day limit or not, previous it was shorter). Amd-numbers was so low before the fix so any drop due to a few clients being counted twice will be minimal.
For CPU-clients on the other hand it looks more like "pre-fix" + "fails to count clients returned anything after the fix" meaning these stats are broken. Or, users are choosing #4 instead, and is turning-off their FAH cpu-clients.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:54 pm
by 7im
Rattledagger wrote:... Snip
Or, users are choosing #4 instead, and is turning-off their FAH cpu-clients.
I, like many others, have chosen to take a 2000 points per day Dual core Computer, turned off the CPU client, and added a GPU or two, making between 100K and 200K points per day.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:10 pm
by Nathan_P
20-30 4p machines and around 40-50 2p machines gone that I am aware of. Not sure of the exact dates but the effect should start coming through in the next week or so since they started pulling the plug around xmas/new year
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:11 pm
by 7im
The revised BA announcement was Jan 15th. Let's see where we are on March 7th (+51 days).
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:37 pm
by Rattledagger
7im wrote:I, like many others, have chosen to take a 2000 points per day Dual core Computer, turned off the CPU client, and added a GPU or two, making between 100K and 200K points per day.
Yes this definitely is a possibility, but it's still a little strange the users responsible for shutting-down 24210 cpu-clients between 22.12.2013 and 31.12.2013 all waited until 10.02.2014 before adding 14964 GPU-clients (not counting Amd) and the majorify of these was added the last 48 hours.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:13 pm
by 7im
Rattledagger wrote:7im wrote:I, like many others, have chosen to take a 2000 points per day Dual core Computer, turned off the CPU client, and added a GPU or two, making between 100K and 200K points per day.
Yes this definitely is a possibility, but it's still a little strange the users responsible for shutting-down 24210 cpu-clients between 22.12.2013 and 31.12.2013 all waited until 10.02.2014 before adding 14964 GPU-clients (not counting Amd) and the majorify of these was added the last 48 hours.
With all the stats reporting adjustments in the last few years because of client changes, and client type changes, and fahcore changes, I can pick another two dates and show just the opposite viewpoint.
Stuff is changing. It will change again. Let's see what shakes out in the next few months.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:04 am
by Risme
Rattledagger wrote:7im wrote:Funny thing is the Linux TFLOPS have not gone down, nor has the active client count. The first set of numbers is from November 1, 2013. The second set of numbers was taken last week. Same TFLOPS, active clients have gone up, active cores have gone down. Decide for yourself.
Code: Select all
Native x86 CPUs Cores Total CPUs
14 14 4512 20226 45204
14 14 4586 17426 48451
AFAIK multiple teams has some kind of FAH-Christmas-race, having an extra spike in "normal" 2-core to 12-core computers at the same time some other users shuts-down their BA-computers are a possibility that can explain the small increase in active cpu's but a large decrease in #cores. Since where's a 50-day delay from shutting-down until this has any effect on the stats-page, the numbers for 10.02.2014 was around 22.12.2013 so likely during any kind of Christmas-race. Todays numbers on the other hand means around 31.12.2013 and depending on race-end this can be afterwards. For the last two stats-updates, the numbers was:
Code: Select all
Linux 9 9 2878 10030 46946
Linux 9 9 2875 10019 46943
Well, to me a halving of active cores since 01.11.2013 and a 36% drop in active cpu's is a marked decrease for Linux.
The possible reasons for this drop are:
1: There's a problem with the Google-worksheet so the old numbers are incorrect.
2: The stats for 10.02.2014 was incorrect meaning can't really compare to old numbers.
3: The bug-fix for Amd-GPU's broke the stats for Linux (and from the look of things Windows & Mac).
4: Users are turning-off their FAH cpu-clients.
Seeing how the "Total CPUs" for Linux decreased with 3 between the two latest stats-updates, the stats are atleast partially broken but this doesn't neccessarily means the other numbers also are broken.
For the other stats, Amd has a marked increase after the bug-fix. The two Nvidia-types also has a marked increase, maybe these also has been under-counted, or it's possible all GPU-numbers are basically "pre-fix" + "clients returned anything after the fix", so can continue to increase until hit the 50-day-limit and would afterwards get a large drop for the Nvidia-types (No idea if GPU also uses a 50-day limit or not, previous it was shorter). Amd-numbers was so low before the fix so any drop due to a few clients being counted twice will be minimal.
For CPU-clients on the other hand it looks more like "pre-fix" + "fails to count clients returned anything after the fix" meaning these stats are broken. Or, users are choosing #4 instead, and is turning-off their FAH cpu-clients.
1. What is the problem more specifically that you're referring to?
2. How are/were the stats in the spreadsheet incorrect for 10.02.2014? I checked the data from an older revision of the spreadsheet and saw no changes in values for that row. If there's a problem with something in the spreadsheet, please leave a comment in the note column to specify the problem. Please note that whatever osstats2 reports is out of my control; the spreadsheet is only meant to be used as a record of the data osstats2 has reported historically.
I'd like to know since i maintain that document, although i encourage people to help me maintain it by checking if data has been entered each day since i forget to do that sometimes. I think i'll start taking a screenshot of
http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/mai ... e=osstats2 for each entry starting next month, so there's some evidence to verify that the data entries match what osstats2 is reporting during the time the data was extracted.
Re: Number of active folders going down?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:50 am
by Rattledagger
Risme wrote:1. What is the problem more specifically that you're referring to?
2. How are/were the stats in the spreadsheet incorrect for 10.02.2014?
I'm not aware where being any problem with the spreadsheet, I just included this option since it's one of the possibilities what would explain the current numbers of active cpu-clients are lower and I wanted to include all possibilities, even some of them is very unlikely to have happened.
The FAH-stats the spreadsheet is based upon on the other hand looks suspicious, taking a look the current numbers are:
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OS Type Native TFLOPS* x86 TFLOPS* Active CPUs Active Cores Total CPUs
Windows 484 484 111272 187163 5283146
Mac OS X 12 12 4387 24522 34507
Linux 8 8 2626 9271 46716
ATI GPU 374 789 2633 2633 363856
NVIDIA GPU 1650 3482 8728 8728 304037
NVIDIA Fermi GPU 10360 21860 30561 67596 347366
Total 12888 26635 160207 299913 6379628
1723798 people have non-anonymously contributed to Folding@home.
Table last updated at Thu, 20 Feb 2014 01:17:17
Linux is continuing losing "Total CPUs", it's lost an additional 1735 CPUs and things are similar for Windows & Mac. As for GPU's, the so-called "Active Cores" is clearly bogus, either for Fermi or for Amd, since EXT64 has a dual-AMD-box but this is not showing-up in the stats.
BTW, the stats-page should also include whatever time-zone it's using.