Folding and HP Cloud Service

[Punchy]

The email to beta testers on February 13th requested that memory usage be reduced "as soon as possible". Only abusers of the service would still be running large instances at the time of toTOW's first post.

[MtM]

The email to beta testers on February 13th requested that memory usage be reduced "as soon as possible". Only abusers of the service would still be running large instances at the time of toTOW's first post.

I remembered hearing something before, but it was really unclear what he was saying. Saying it was already known to those involved makes it hard to see the reason for the post ( when including 'please exit...' ). If the intent was mainly to inform people who where starting ( though I've heard people are no longer being admitted if they state their primary intent is to fold ) it would have been better to say 'don't configure your clients in x way'.

Anyway, just mho

[SS_Patrick]

We are here for the science, the feeling of doing good while doing hardly anything, and for some the points. Ahh yes the points!

It's great to have a system where people can compete with each other while doing something good for the greater population. Some people however have taken this too far, way too far. I have been folding for the Overclock.net team (Go! #37726) for over a year. I have spend thousands on hardware to further this project and to gain a little satisfaction to see my points go up. The introduction of HPCS (Hewlett Packard - Cloud Services) among folders was a huge success. People signed up for a free boost in points, while agreeing to a few simple terms. One of those was that you may only create accounts for yourself under your identity. This is where people became greedy creating over 100 instances of these servers.


(http://www.overclock.net/t/1207603/so-i ... -overboard)

In the ToS (http://hpcloud.com/legal_docs) HP does not specifically state in clear terms that you may only have one account. They however do state in the welcome email that you may not put full production load on the testing servers. Again there isn't really a problem here as they welcomed folders and let use their own systems for what we love. My good friend went to HP support to see if we could get a better idea of the ToS in laymens terms. On Post #34 and #38 in the Overclock.net folding section the tech clearly states that in his opinion it is "an abuse of the program. Especially if these people are misleading us by giving a false intended use case."

You are probobly thinking "why is this nut case reporting his own team?!" I'm not one of those people who say "I'm not in it for the points", the points show how hard I've worked on my machines, the time invested in setting them up, and the time it took for all those projects to work and upload. It gives the folder a sense of gratification, a sense of a job well done. When people on your team like Extreme Newbie (Picture), _s3v3n_ (Picture), BWG who is a Staff member (Picture), and finally zodac (Picture) he is our team leader. Someone who should be leading by example not someone who is abusing an already free system.

This really needs to stop, this is unethical, and unfair. I know other teams are doing it but my team should act better. I've asked on our own forums to put a stop to it but they don't. Something needs to be done, show them that this will not be tolerated.

P.S. Just as proof, My Profile on OCN, my folding stats, and my stanford page.

All the links with the word Picture in them are pictures I've uploaded as proof of the posts by the users in case they get deleted from Overclock.net

Thanks for listening and sorry for the long post

[mdk777]

I understand and agree with your concerns.

However, won't this be sorted out as soon as HP ends the trial and starts to charge for the accounts ?

Will that be soon? or not?

[MtM]

I've said simular things without knowing that HP representatives had already said clearly that this usage is against EULA. It saddens me that people who should know better take the risk of associating Folding@Home with abuse of a free service like the HPCS trail.

But the only one's who can really put a stop to this is HP and/or PG. It's easy for HP to blacklist the Folding@Home AS servers, making instances drie up after completeting current work. I am also quite sure that if needed PG could blacklist the list of ip's used by the HPCS program. None of this would happen unless there is an official abuse complaint.

And this means a statement from someone else then a tech representative. If/when that happens, I expect the service to be made unavailable to Folding@Home ( as it's evident up front that a request to stop is going to fall on deaf ears by lots of people... though maybe an official request would carry more weight, which would still dissapoint me as it's saying: we can steal unless caught and corrected by the judge, if a fellow citizen sees us and points out the morality of our actions we will just ignore it ).

[toTOW]

There are already talks about it in this thread : viewtopic.php?f=16&t=20932

Edit by Mod: Topics merged.

[Punchy]

It's easy for HP to blacklist the Folding@Home AS servers, making instances drie up after completeting current work. I am also quite sure that if needed PG could blacklist the list of ip's used by the HPCS program. None of this would happen unless there is an official abuse complaint.

Unfortunately it would only be a matter of hours before someone posted instructions on setting up your own proxy to work around both of those.

as it's evident up front that a request to stop is going to fall on deaf ears by lots of people... though maybe an official request would carry more weight, which would still disappoint me as it's saying: we can steal unless caught and corrected by the judge, if a fellow citizen sees us and points out the morality of our actions we will just ignore it.

Well said - but that behavior seems to be widespread these days.

[MtM]

Touche

[bruce]

We are here for the science, the feeling of doing good while doing hardly anything, and for some the points. Ahh yes the points!

. . .

In the ToS (http://hpcloud.com/legal_docs) HP does not specifically state in clear terms that you may only have one account. They however do state in the welcome email that you may not put full production load on the testing servers.

. . .

This really needs to stop, this is unethical, and unfair. I know other teams are doing it but my team should act better. I've asked on our own forums to put a stop to it but they don't. Something needs to be done, show them that this will not be tolerated.

All the links with the word Picture in them are pictures I've uploaded as proof of the posts by the users in case they get deleted from Overclock.net

Thanks for listening and sorry for the long post

All that you've said may be true, but isn't this an issue that needs to be corrected in the HPCS ToS? Saying something is unethical or unfair doesn't seem to stop folks who are intent on maximizing their points by any means possible. In fact, it just publicizes the behavior that you'd like to have stop.

Please don't make duplicate topics. Topics merged.

[vbironchef]

I have been f@h since 03.31.07 til now I thought the points were fair. Not any more hence I quit f@h. I put to many years into this to see someone or some teams pass me up in less than a year. What a joke! What really set me off was the added power and cooling required from 2 of my evga 570's. Both were running at fan speeds @ 80%. Give me a break!. Once again, What a joke! F@H is just hurting itself!

[bruce]

F@H is just hurting itself!

I don't understand how that's true.

I can certainly understand being frustrated that others are earning more points than you do, but they're actually completing a lot more science and probably doing it faster, too. F@H has no control over what hardware you are able to use.

If you think HPCS shouldn't allow this, you'll have to talk to them. Cloud computing will probably grow over the next several years, and the use of HPCS will probably decrease when their burn-in test ends and people have to start paying for what they're using.

You may consider it unethical/unfair but others don't have the same ethics that you do.

[MtM]

+1 Bruce, and I would like to also point out that the new work unit's for Fermi cards are causing higher temperatures because they are more efficient in loading up the gpu, hence they are completing more science. So unless f@h is breaking hardware, making it run hot is actually a sideeffect of it becomming better, not wurse.

vbironchef, people pass me all the time, since ba was started for instance I dropped at least 1200 places in the global rankings and I hope this will only increase. My ppd is still higher then it was before, why would I envy people capabable of doing more then I can? It makes no sense, unless you're here only for the competition, then I understand it hurts you can't compete.

If you're here for the cause, what's making it so hard to accept people have hardware capable of doing more science, hence they are getting more points?

[vbironchef]

I don't mind being passed up if I know it's fair. Getting blown out of the water is another story. As far as my equipment goes, I have a intel I7 980x and a I7 860 that were running 24/7 plus my 570's. Not great but was good enough for me since I pay the electric bill! I was not expecting anyone on this site would understand or care about my point of view so I see I was right. Just thought I would give my two cents worth.

[MtM]

Getting passed and getting blown out of the water is the exact same thing, it just feels different.

I'm really surprised people actually post that their leaving because they envy those who can do more science.

[Jesse_V]

I don't mind being passed up if I know it's fair. Getting blown out of the water is another story. As far as my equipment goes, I have a intel I7 980x and a I7 860 that were running 24/7 plus my 570's. Not great but was good enough for me since I pay the electric bill! I was not expecting anyone on this site would understand or care about my point of view so I see I was right. Just thought I would give my two cents worth.

I do care about your point of view, just as everyone else. I care about someone's perspective even more if they really analyse the situation, identify the problem, and maybe even provide a solution. That's some pretty nice hardware. If you were passed up by a team, since they register the combined points of all their members then that's not unexpected. If you were passed up by an individual, they must have had better hardware than you do. The points make the project a bit competitive, but just remember that the Pande Group appreciates any contribution you can make at all. It's about donating computing resources, and the points try to reflect that. IMO, they do a fairly good job at it, more or less. How exactly is your situation not fair? Can you be a bit more specific? Do you know what hardware the individuals that passed you up have? Consider opening this up on a different thread, because IMO it's not exactly related to folding on the HP Cloud Service unless I missed something here. As long as you detail an issue, we'll be happy to help. Best, Jesse V.